lørdag den 23. maj 2009

I Oslo

Jeg tilbragte nylig en dag i Oslo og forsøgte å se så meget av staden som muligt på denne tid. Fra "Danskebåten" gikk færden til Akershus hvår en omviser nettopp var i gang med å bibringe en skoleklasse kundskaper om de oldenborgske konger hviss personligheder blev beskrevet en for en. Det komm et øyeblikk til å stå mere levende for mig hvår stort et fellesskap Danmark og Norge har om enevåldskongerne.

Videre gikk jeg gennem renæssancestadsdelen som engang kalltes Christiania. En fraksjon av lokalpolitikere foreslog nylig å genopplive dette navn for den del av Oslo som nu kalles Sentrum, men blev nedstemmt. At viljen til å endre navnet er til stede hos någle, er kanske en efterklang av at staden i sin tid i någen grad fikk navneskiftet trukket ned over hovedet av landspolitikerne; men at de trods allt ikke kunne samle flertall, viser at de tidligere christianienseres efterkommere i hvert fall i dag har taget navnet Oslo til sig fullt og helt. Der var da heller ikke tale om å omdøpe hele hovedstaden, blott Sentrum.

Begge parter i ordskiftet anklagede hverandre for historieløshed hvilket efter min menig er meningsløst uanset hvad. Dærsom man endrede navnet tilbage, ville man vekte den historie som forteller om Norges 400 danske år. Dærsom man ikke endrede det, ville man vekte, at disse år (og de 100 svenske) nu er forbi. I begge tilfelle forteller navnet historie, spørsmålet er blott hvilken historie man veljer. Historieløs blir man først når man ingenting aner om fortiden.

Foran slottet tronede Carl XIV Johan til hest. Dette har man ikke endret på; det er jo lettere å la minnerne stå enn å endre frem og tilbage på dem, men kan selvklart bare gøres med minner som ikke gør ondt. Et annet minne som tilsyneladende ikke er smerteligt, er de mange citater fra Ibsens skuespill som er nedfellet i fliserne foran Nasjonalteatret [sic]: De står faktisk på dansk, om enn man på denne tid kallte språget norsk. Bokmålet er ennu ikke spiret frem i skriftbilledet.

Det er vanskeligt å sige om bokmål er dansk på norsk substrat eller norsk på dansk substrat. Sagen er jo at det norske substrat har funnedes igennem århundrederne i de "dannede klassers" danskpåvirkede språg, men først omkring siste århundredeskifte gennemføres i rettskrivningen. Kanske kan man kalle det norsk på dansk på norsk substrat.

Om enn bokmålets oppkomst betød en større språglig mangfåld i Norden, er lykketreffet ved bokmålet at det er havnet på pladsen midt imellem dansk og svensk. Tett på svensk udtale og tett på dansk ordforråd. Denne "språgbro" som nu kan hålde Norden sammen, er kanske det danske språgs viktigste avtrykk på språgfellesskapet. Det er skæbnens ironi at dette språg nu er i fare for at bortdø fra det fellesnordiske, men trods allt efterlod sig et brugbart avtrykk i Norge - mangfåld kan i någle tilfelle styrke fellesskapet dærsom den ikke går udover den eksisterende mangfåld, men finner en nisje innen for yderpunkterne.

Annerledes er sagen selvklart med nynorsk. Jeg legger vegen forbi Noregs Mållag og finner ganske ydmyge lokaler ovenpå en Statoil-tankstasjon i udkanten av Sentrum. Ingen glassfasade, ingen bannere, ingen brosjyrer. Så svagt står landsmålet alltså i hovedstaden. Men selvom denne målform er mere særnorsk, og jeg er skandinavist, kan jeg alligevell ikke la være med å omfatte den med sympati.

For der finnes ubestridelige fordele ved nynorskens eksistens, først og fremmest at den sikkrer at alle nordmenn er eksponeret for to forskellige målformer innen for samme språgområde. Dette, og dialekternes tradisjonellt sterke stilling i landet, gir en språglig fleksibilitet og tolerance og først og fremmest en språgbevissthed som er misunnelsesverdig og faktisk er en drømm for en skandinavist. Tenk om vi alle i Norden levede under disse forhåld. Tvungen sidemålsstil på dansk og svensk - nettopp som en del av modersmålsundervisningen.

Hærtil kommer at den nynorske skriftnormal på mange punkter hvår den adskiller sig fra bokmål, faktisk har lighed med svensk. Det gelder selvsagt ikke arvesølvet, diftongerne, men mange andre vokal- og konsonantforbinnelser og store dele av ordforrådet; så den er ikke bare en språgbro til ingenting, men også til en viss grad til brødrafolkens væl, som den siste unionskonge, Oscar II, ville udtrykke det.

Alle uligheder til trods er der faktisk meget som minner om situasjonen i Finnland. Ganske visst rører det sig ikke om to ubeslektede språg, men om to skriftnormaler av samme språg (to udav fire, må jeg her inskyde), men i begge tilfelle med statslig sanksjonering og i begge tilfelle i lande med et så høyt udvikklet civilsamfund, at det er muligt for borgerne å sørge for en stabil tilstand for målene. Den språglige bevissthed i disse samfund er, alle vanskeligheder ufortallt, et gode i sig selv.

Naturligvis gir de ulige håldninger til historien sig også udtrykk i ulige håldninger til språget i et både gammelt og ungt land som dette, hvår Bygdø (kongsgård) ligger på Bygdøy, og hinsides hvilken jeg finner berømmte skipe som dem fra Oseberg og Gokstad udstillet tett på Fram og Kon-Tiki, spennende over et gap på 1000 år, men alle satt i forbinnelse med en tids nasjonalhelte. Uanset hvilken mening man kan ha om sådanne i dag, er historisk bevissthed under alle omstendigheder heller ikke å forakte.

13 kommentarer:

  1. I'm afraid I don't speak Danish but I'm interested in Scandinavian orthography. What does this mean? Have all the Scandinavian langugaes - Danish,Swedish, Nynorsk and Bokmal decided on a common orthography between them. Is this sponsored by the 3 states or their governments or something organic which Scandinavians use? How different is it and how easy to use?

    Although i don't speak any of these languages I'd be interested to understand.

    Cymro

    Wales

    SvarSlet
  2. Denne kommentar er fjernet af forfatteren.

    SvarSlet
  3. Croeso!

    Unfortunately, they haven't. This is actually my personal project - to show how the orthographies could be changed in order to become more alike.

    The changes that I use eliminate all differences that are not due to pronunciation but merely to different spelling traditions. In a way, if my changes were implemented the relation between all four standard orthographies would be just like the relation between bokmål and nynorsk. So, in this way one could argue that Scandinavian is a single language.

    I find it quite easy to switch between normal Danish spelling and my own - but I'm a language freak, obviously... I estimate that I have changed the spelling of around 25% of the words of a text.

    Certainly I would like to win more Scandinavians for my cause and eventually I hope to co-operate with Swedish and Norwegian bloggers. But realistically, this remains my Nordic Utopia.

    You might be intersted in the very first post where I explain the priciples of my orthography. Although you don't speak the language it's possible to see the changes from the examples given.

    Thanks a lot for your interest!

    SvarSlet
  4. Troels-Peter

    Diolch! Thanks for the answer - very interesting. I remember reading an article years ago (don't remember where) advocating that the Scandinavian languages should 'unite' so as to create a stronger language with a bigger market. And although I don't speak either a Scandinavian language nor Italian I guess the differences between spoken Sicilian and Genoese is maybe not much less than between Danish and Swedish but that the Sicilians and Genoese have decided they are 'Italian' and write and now speak 'Italian'.

    Is the Scandinavian you write accessible to all speakers of Norwegian(s), Swedish and Danish or just 'educated' people?

    How closely does it correspond to the spoken Scandinavian lingua franca which a Danish person would speak if he went to a shop in Stockholm or Oslo? (How does that work in any case? - does the Danish person speak a simpler Danish or do they know the general rules of Swedish or what?).

    I apologise to other readers for taking over your blog!

    SvarSlet
  5. Well, there aren't that many readers, so you're welcome. I suppose spelling like I do scares away everybody without a linguistic interest...

    Yes, as far as I understand the dialect differences within eg. Italy or France are bigger than within Scandinavia. I suppose if the Kalmar Union had not fallen apart we would also have developed one standard here, and in today's world it would have been an advantage. Literature, media and education would have a bigger market.

    The way things are today, I think it's important to advocate as much unity as possible, simply because things are going the wrong way. Sadly, the mutual understanding in Scandinavia is declining.

    I suppose it's also possible to have more written standards as long as they don't drift apart. I believe bokmål and nynorsk don't, and it's my impression that the relationship between British and American English is also stable.

    I would like a single written standard to be used in Scandinavia alongside with the four others. It could be used eg. in written media and educational books. Even for a Wikipedia.

    With my spelling, all five standards could be included in a single dictionary (with many alternative forms, obviously) to be used everywhere. Then, slowly, people could mix them and the languages could merge without it being imposed.

    But this is fantasy, obviously, as it would also demand that Scandinavia worked much more like a unity, so people would actually meet all the time in educational and political forums - or hobby associations and so on. Basically everywhere. And this is not the case.

    As for the accessibility of my Scandinavian, I would say that it is very high. Of course the languages are officially considered to be directly accessible to each other already today. And with my spelling, the situation is improved, as Danish and bokmål become almost identical and much closer to Swedish.

    In practise, of course, people may be more or less used to the other languages. It also depends on how often you talk to other Scandinavians and use each other's media. It varies a lot between individuals. I would say that it has less to do with 'educatedness' than with practice.

    I suppose that , as a Scandinavian, if you have decided to understand, you will, and then my spelling is a great help. If you have made up your mind not to understand, then even I can't help.

    This comment got a bit long, so I'll split it in two.

    SvarSlet
  6. I'm also inspired by the lingua franca phenomena that can appear in Scandinavia, in the sense that I try to use as "Scandinavian" words as possible.

    Of course, communicating in slightly different languages involves paying attention to the differences, ie. grammar, lexicon and pronunciation. In the case of the Scandinavian languages, happily, the grammar is practically identical, so luckily there's no need to simpilfy it or learn new rules.

    This leaves lexicon and pronunciation. People with many Scandinavian contacts have a general knowledge about the words that differ, and it's common to replace them with more understandable ones. I would say that this knowledge was more prevalent in my parents' and grandparents' generations and is, sadly, also declining.

    Actually there are hardly any lexical differences between Danish and bokmål, so in my case a knowledge of a few hundred Swedish words is necessary when conversing with other Scandinavians

    In the blog I mainly replace words that are common in Danish with less common words that are still considered "Danish" by average readers, and which are more common in Swedish. Of course, one has to consider how far one will go in order to achieve unity and still write something that doesn't scare Danes (further) away.

    Pronunciation is the main problem for Danish within Scandinavia today. The phonetic and phonological changes that are taking place in Danish in these generations are quite pervasive.

    Denmark is also one of the countries where young children spend the most time in institutions away from their parents, and I suspect that there's a connexion. Sadly, almost all the changes separate Danish from Norwegian and Swedish.

    There's not much my spelling can do about this, except abstaining from following the pronunciation (although there are some cases where my changes actually bring the spelling closer to both the pronunciation and to Norwegian and Swedish)

    Though I like linguistic diverity on a world level, I really find it deplorable to see Scandinavia falling apart. So I try to counter it like this.

    Don't mind my digressions. It's quite rare to find someone with an interest in these matters. Actually I would like to translate some of the posts into English at some point. Do you speak Welsh?

    SvarSlet
  7. I meant "diversity", of course.

    SvarSlet
  8. Troels-Peter - thanks for your comprehensive answers - I'm very appreciative of your time. It's also a very interesting project. I can see the arguments that Catalan would not want to be seen and considered as Spanish (and I think there may be more differences between these languages than between the various Scandinavians). However, I can also appreciate your project. Spanish is under no threat so 'Catalan' opting out (if I can term it as such) is neither here nor there. The situation's different with Scandinavian/s. In a way you're trying to do what the Flemish people have done which is decide that they spoke Dutch rather than taking the political decision that they spoke Flemish. They did this, I presume, partly, so as to counter the Fancophone community's strength - after all, being part of a linguistic community of 20 million (Dutch) seems better than one of 6 million ('Flemish').

    having wikipedia pages in Scandinavian seems a good idea. One presumes that labels etc on foods and produce could also be in Scandinavian. But of course to do this would be a big effort and you'd need to have a political movement behind it ... you'd better start designing a flag now! ;-)

    I presume that Faeroese and Icelandic are too far removed to be part of Scandinavian.

    What's the view of the Nordic Council?

    Yes, I speak Welsh. Unfortunately, Breton (and Cornish) are too far removed for us to create (or recreate!) a Brythonic language! However, the politics of language transfere, shift etc are very much alive here!

    SvarSlet
  9. Yes, I must confess that it's contradictory to like the diversity and then at the same time advocate more unity in this case. I can't really find any arguments based on reason - except that it would save resources and money - so I suppose that it's simply because I feel very Scandinavian and believe that the feeling of community is based on the common language.

    I suppose it's sometimes quite subjective if one thinks that diversity should be preserved or that unity should be achieved, and of course it also has to do with how far the languages are removed from each other. I also have great sympathy for Catalan (and Occitan). On the other hand, the Dutch-speaking unity seems like a good idea, and what is happening to Serbo-Croat these years seems like absurd theatre to me. To the people involved, of course, it is deeply intertwined with politics.

    I suppose I could use the "Scandinavian flag" which is mentioned in a source from the 15th century - yellow with a red cross. Other popular Scandinavian movements sometimes use it :)

    As for the Nordic Council, they rarely voice an opinion on this. I'm sure that they support the idea in theory, but the question seems almost forgotten nowadays.

    Yes, Icelandic and Faroese must be said to be foreign languages, so they are "out of reach" - although I have actually taught myself to read Faroese simply by reading newspapers. They are surprisingly different from each other too. I can't make much of an Icelandic paper.

    Is Welsh your first language? I suppose it is still uncommon to learn it as a foreign language, although I heard that this is changing. Is the situation of this language stable?

    SvarSlet
  10. Interesting.

    Yes, Welsh is my first language. The situation here is complicated (or not so complicated if you're familiar with languages like Catalan, Basque etc).

    In many respects the prestige of the language, and certainly the status hasn't been so high since Wales was incorporated into England in 1536 and 1542 when English were made the sole official language in Wales and Welsh effectively banned from public space (even though the vast majority of the people in Wales were monoglot Welsh speakers).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_in_Wales_Acts_1535%E2%80%931542


    Welsh faces difficulty in language transference from generation to generation and especially so in 'mixed' households esp if the mother in English speaking and father Welsh-speaking (we say 'mother tongue' for a reason!). On the other hand there's a steady increase in the number of people (non-Welsh speaking as well as Welsh-speaking) sending their children to Welsh-medium schools. So it's a mixed picture.

    The biggest problem Welsh faces from my point of view is the movement of English people into Wales. It's not that these people are particularly anti-Welsh in any way but that by virtue of the sheer numbers and the fact they are monolingual in such a prestigious language etc as against a language with a lower level of social as well as civic prestige means that Wales is becoming more-more English speaking. It's impossible to get middle-aged monolingual English-speakers to learn Welsh in such numbers as to change the language shift ... this is something which you can't say in Wales for fear of being called racist. But, I'm sure, were the same phenomenon to happen in Denmark, Sweden or Norway you'd have the same situation!

    If it wasn't for the movement of people I'd be much more optimistic as I believe Welsh-speakers are quite proud of Welsh and attached to the langauge and are familiar with diglossic situations where they'd watch English television and speak Welsh to one another. Of course, that's not an argument against increasing the prestige, use and availability of Welsh!

    I believe the politics of the 21st century will, to a large part, be the politics of Wales over the last few centuries - smaller linguistic communities trying to live in a bilingual world which is dominated by english or to a lesser extent Chinese, Spanish etc.

    Interestingly enough, and as a mirror to me belief, there's a conference held in Wales next month where the Ambassador of Bolivia is coming to Wales to discuss education policies in relation to weaker linguistic communities as Evo Morales has announced that 3 new universities for indigenous peoples are to be opened there.
    http://www.eblul.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=223&Itemid=1

    SvarSlet
  11. Whew, I've been away for a while. I'm afraid that you're right about your analysis of the future for the smaller languages of the world. Maybe it's another good reason to be a Scandinavianist.

    I wonder if the situation of Welsh in eg. Cardiff is comparable to the situation of Swedish in Helsiki. There has been a huge influx of Finnish speakers in the last 100-150 years. It used to have a Swedish majority, but now it's down to 6%.

    However, it's my impression that Swedish in Helsinki still forms a vigorous and well-functioning community. I wonder what the similarities and differences are from Welsh in Cardiff. Is it possible for a Welsh speaker to be served in Welsh at any sort of public body or office? Is Welsh a compulsory subject in English-medium schools?

    It's my impression that children of mixed marriages in Finland are increasingly attending Swedish-medium schools. What is the case in southern Wales?

    The Welsh-medium schools are interesting. I've read about the same phenomenon in Ireland. However, the Danish minority south of the Danish-German border mostly speaks German as first language nowadays although they have been attending Danish-medium schools for 2-3 generations now, so I'm afraid it doesn't lead to language change - unless, maybe, the minority is locally the majority (which is not the case here).

    SvarSlet
  12. I think the Welsh-speaking community in Cardiff does has some similarities. It's quite a well-defined and well-functioning community with its own centres and networks which also, of course, integrates within the larger English-speaking community. It's a growing community too with young people from more Welsh-speaking parts of the country moving there for work and a growing number of non-Welsh speakers sending their children to Welsh-medium schools.

    From a low of about 2% of the population in the 1950s (although Welsh was probably the language of at least half the people in the Cardiff area until about 1850 and later in some parts) Welsh is now the language of about 7 - 10%. However, a large part of this percentage is school children.

    Welsh-medium schools has a good name academically. The difficulty to intergrating very large numbers of children who are from nonWelsh-speaking households into the school which functions in a minority language. The Welsh medium schools are very glad to have children from nonWelsh-speaking households, or non-English too, but it is a challenge. I laugh when English MPs raise the concern about children from nonEnglish-speaking backgrounds in inner city schools in London or Birmingham. Their difficulties are so much easier than for Welsh-medium schools!

    Welsh is a compulsory subject in all schools until the age of 16 in Wales. Though, the effectiveness of teaching varies from place to place and school to school. Welsh-medium schools teach through the medium of Welsh with English introduced when the children are about 7 years old. A third language, usually French or German, is then taught from the first year of high school.

    SvarSlet
  13. Back again...

    Yes, sometimes it is difficult to assess the number of speakers of a language because school children are included.

    Actually it seems to be a problem mainly in English-spaking countries that they are counted as "daily" speakers - and that the censuses don't properly distinguish between first and second language speakers.

    For example this makes it quite difficult (at least for me) to figure out how the status of the Irish language is.

    I wonder if there are more differences or similarities between the cases of Welsh in Cardiff and Swedish in Helsinki. Can you expect to be served in the minority language at the municipality, at a doctor or at a lawyer? I know this is the case in Helsinki.

    Are Welsh media readily available? And are all public signs biligual?

    And how about mixed marriages? Are they sending their children mainly to Welsh-language schools?

    SvarSlet